List of atheists (surnames L to M)

Transcription

Good evening dear viewers. Welcome to the "History and Civilization". As usual, I and Prof. Ahmet Şimşirgil are again with you. Valuable viewers, we will discuss in detail very important issue this night. It's Jamal ad-din Afghani. He can be a name who had never been heard by some of you. But, as you know, some figures such as Afghani, Muhammad Abduh, [Abul A'la] Maududi, Rashed Rida; and their damages to Islam religion and Ahl as-Sunnah are always mentioned in our programs with Prof. Şimşirgil. We had occassionaly said "let's discuss seperately these names one day, you should remember them. This evening, we will talk about Jamal ad-din Afghani, his mission and his life adventure who affects muslims especially in 19th and 20nd centruies and still continues to affect them today and who has serious influence on intellectual backgrounds of Islamic scholars, theologians and some thinkers... Jamal ad-din Afghani, it's his most known name, but it's known Jamal ad-din Asadabadi in Iran. He is called sometimes as Istanbuli (the one from Istanbul), sometimes as Asadabadi Yes, as you know, he has several idendities, he introduces himself as Istanbuli, when he has been in India, he says that he is a Turk. In Afghanistan, he says "I am Afghan". He goes to Russia, says "I am Russian", In Iran, says "I am Iranian and I am Azerbaijani"... There are a lot of pseudonym he used. Who is Afghani, first let's start from here, that's, where is he from? Afghani is known as Jamal ad-din Afghani, one from Afghanistan in Turkey. He says it himself that he is from Asadabad [in Afghanistan], but there is also a place named Asadābād in Iran, this is a very significant point. -Just a minute, in Afghanistan..? Asadabad and Asadābād! Asadabad is different region from Asadābād! So Jamal ad-din Afghani is ever known as Afghani here, in Turkey, there are in fact a lot of rumors on what you mention... With a various reasons such as the fact that he stayed long time in Istanbul, he buried in Istanbul, some called him as Istanbuli... Iranian, Indian, many pseudonyms were used... It's complicated, but there is an important issue. It is clearly proven that he is from Asadābād, Iran in respected studies related to Jamal ad-din Afghani, especially by his relatives. - It is described by his nephew, himself. There is a book written by his nephew, so Jamal ad-din Afghani is an Iranian and from Asadābād. - And he is a Shiite? Of course, in consequence of his being Iranian, You can get already some idea of him with it. He is understood to be a Shiite. Why is he Shiite, Iranian? If he was not a Shiite, we would have easily known that Jamal ad-din Afghani was an Iranian. Look, if he was not a Shiite, it would have been said that Jamal ad-din Afghani was from bla bla region of Iran, from bla bla a village where are inhabited by Sunnis. Is it necessary to hide it? If he was a Sunni, he didn't need to hide place where he was borned. He hid it because he isn't a Sunni. And he said "I am Afghani" "Those who tell a lie, deceive are not from us", It's a word of the Prophet, hadith-i sharif. For instance, he says that he is a Sayyid (title given to the Prophet’s descendants) - Now, I'm going to ask it, there is a book named Safinat al-awliya printed in Turkey. It says that he is Husaini (descendant of Husain, grandson of our Master the Probhet) - In this book, it is alleged that he is Sayyid, even he is Turkistani and coming from a sheikh family of a grand and rooted religous sect in Turkistan. The book writes like this. Ahmet Agaoglu, a famous columnist in Cumhuriyet daily, in his itself own words , he says Afghani was borned in Maraa in Iranian Azerbaijan. Afghani states to his closest student, Muhammad Abduh, that he is from Afghanistan. He says he is a Turk in India. Even Brits call him as Rumi, that's the Anatolian They call him as Istanbuli in India, when it was said that he is a Turk. Asadabad, near the city of Hamadan [in Iran] and another Asadabad is near the city of Kabul [in Afghanistan]. I mean wherever he goes, he describes himself according to location he is. -That's he hides his idendity. For example he sees that Afghans hold in high esteem Turks. -He says "I am a Turk" there Yes, says 'I am a Turk'. In Turkey, he sees Turks sympathize so much Afghans, -and Afghans are Sunni Sunni, he says 'I am an Afghan', doesn't say 'I am Indian' In fact Afghani is a man who know very well where and what to use. He behaves in a way that he can gain people's symphaties and he uses it. He travel to several countries and cities throughout the world, he know everybody in these regions. It's not a lie. If someone visit all provinces of Turkey and stayed in each province for only ten weeks, he can be local, he can be from everywhere. Bla bla street, bla bla neighbour, so-and-so... Ask him 'where are you from', for instance, Ankara. Which street? Bla bla street. Then you are from another street, ten places name, you know them, so you can talk about the places, people suppose that you know Ankara better than an Ankara local. So in that time, they say, 'woow man is ten times more native of Ankara. it is just that simple. It's all easy. Afghani is a clever man, awesome clever. Look, even it shows everything: His father name is Hayder. It is hardly used by Sunnis. This name is hardly seen among Sunnis. Then Shah of Iran will give some information about him to Abdul Hamid II [the 34th Sultan of the Ottoman Empire] when Afghani made some political moves in Iran and will warn the Ottoman Sultan not to beleive him saying "He is a Shiite, an Iranian Shiite, not an Afghani". Person who knows him best is one from his own country. - But he acted in accordance with his own madhhab [religious denomination] because hypocrisy is the basis of Shiah, hypocrisy is an art of hiding one's real intention, real idendity. but, Mr. Fatih, he is not one who serves for Shiah. -To What? He serves for British interest. -For British? Yes, his service is for British. -Ok. Let's continue from there His service is for Jews, his service is for some people who exploit him. His service is for himself, his service is for his own nafs [negative force within humans that prompts them to do evil]. - Just a minute Sir, you said his service was for British. . Meantime I had some questions but I am going to get back to them. Obviously he has a mysterious idendity and you perceive an intention, you had felt the need to hide his true identity because he needed to hide his identity so that he can fulfil the requirements of his mission. For instance, we have mentioned he was Husaini, , he says that he is Sayyid. But can you trust, can you believe one's being Sayyid who tell a lie about his birth place, cheated the people. No, of course not. You said he was the man of British. On what basis do you say that? His trips are very interesting. He traveled a lot of regions in the Islamic geography. Besides he goes to France, Britain, Russia and a lot of countries... He walks around India, Beirut, Iran, Afghanistan and Egypt, everywhere as Islamic countries... But there is a man who Afghani stayed in his home when he was in Britain. - Who? Mr. Blunt. [Wilfrid Scawen] -Who is he Sir? He is a highly important figure. -Is he spy or intelligence officer? He is an intelligence officer. Mr. Blunt holds the same position in Egypt which Lawrence holds in Arabia. -Mr. Blunt's wife is an intelligence officer, too. Ms. Blunt. Yes, she is, too. It is he who bring motto "Egypt belongs to Egyptians" forward. -Blunt? Yes, Blunt. -One minute, it also brought another thing to my mind. There is a daily in Turkey, Its motto is "Turkey belongs to Turks" Yeah,"Turkey belongs to Turks" It's right, that is, now... -So let's draw a conclusion from here. It's as in Turkey. Egypt belongs to Egyptians. Iran belongs to Iranians. Turkey belongs to Turks. What could he mean by that? It's ethnic separatism, it's a race question. His favorite poem is "I'm a Turk and my race is great". -Does it belong to Afghani? No, It's from Afghani's favorite poem. -Whose is this poem? It's poem of Mehmet Emin Yurdakul who is one of those Afghani have the most effect on. It's interesting. - Yurdakul is one of Akif's friends [Akif is the author of the Turkish National Anthem] Yes, he is Akif's friend. He is like Akif's master mind. That is, while I'm telling about Akif, that's why I'm saying negative things about him. He didn't know who is enemy, who is friend. When you couldn't know who enemy and friend of the Ottoman Empire are, you love heretical people.... Today we slap ISIL here, some thing is reported in TV's everyday, what are intellectual sources of these [terrorists]? People have to question and examine very well these... Otherwise, they can play us off against each other in a way they wanted. Perhaps it's enough to make a TV program for Akif, but you have to make 500 TV programs to tell Jamal ad-din Afghani. You have to tell also [Muhammad] Abduh, [Abul A'la] Maududi and [Muhammad] Rashid Rida because their political views and ideologies continue to divide the society today, their influence continue still... - Yes, we have already expressed it. You said, British... Today we know that Jamal ad-din Afghani was a member of Cairo Manosic Lodge in Scottish Rite controlled by British. He had affiliated with the lodge. But after a while, Afghani was dismissed from this lodge in the Scottish Rite. Its reason is known...to spread freely and publicly his atheist ideas. According to Scottish rite, you have to belong to a religion, a belief, they don't accept disbelievers. But French lodge [Grand Orient de France] doesn't have this kind of a problem. Now why did I say it? I said it for that, you said he was the man of British, but then he comes into conflict with Brits for a period. -That's true. Afghani commences to act together with the French. I wonder if the reason of this [his conflicting with Brits] can be the fact that he was excluded, because of his atheist ideas, from the Scottish Masonic Lodge controlled by British and having its colors. Maybe, it's possible, we don't have clear evidences of it, we only know that he was dismissed but, they are against atheism. Eventually there is a situation extolling a belief, a religion. - to a degree in Scottish rite... You know, there is a story, Satan wants to be a friend with a man but run away from him soon afterwards when he saw that the man didn't perform the five daily salat [prayer]. "I disobeyed only an order [commandment to prostrate to Adam 'alaihis-salam] of Allahu ta'âlâ and I have been thrown out of Heaven. Times of prayers are passing but you aren't performing salat, so I can draw Allah's wrath because of you, your disobedience" he said and run away immediately from him. So some lodges require a religious affiliation, others are against religions, thus they can exclude him from membership, he can be contrary to them. But what is Afghani doing? He continues to attend masonic lodges. This time we see him in France, but did British have nothing to do with Afghani? Yes he was discarded from that lodge but did he cut his affair with British? -Of course Sir, it isn't ending... He plays both sides, all sides. It is already one of reasons of that he has this much idendity. There is a masonic lodge established by Napoleon's military officers in Egypt. It's French rite, you know there are Scottish rite, French rite and Italian rite, three colors in masonry. Then Afghani joins the lodge in Egypt and he becomes Grand Master there, is it true? That’s true, true. There are some kind of photos, with gloves of masons... There are documents of his initiation. Let's talk about a little more masonry of Afghani Prof. Muhammad Hussein, he is a highly respected scientist from Al-Azhar and he has a book translated into Turkish named "Emergence of modernism in Islamic world" [its original name is "Al-islâm va'l-hadâratu'l-garbiyya"] --Sir, let's show and advise it to our viewers. This is a very important work Yes, very important. --Those who want to have information about Afghani [Muhammad] Abduh and others should read this book He allocated a special part to Abduh and Afghani in his book. --Sir, by the way, shall we say another book name... ... Nikki Keddie, an American professor, has the most comprehensive study about Afghani. The book was translated into Turkish by Prof. Alaeddin Yalcinkaya [its original name: Sayyid Jamal al-Din "al-Afghani": A Political Biography] Valuable viewers, you can find it in searching for Nikki Keddie, it's really a very precious work, number one in the world because she had dedicated his life to the work Why is this book important? Those people dominated Al-Azhar in a particular period. Al-Azhar was dominated almost wholly by reformist ideas, philosopher trends and ideas. For instance, Afghani started to publish a daily named "Mısr" in Egypt. Then he handed over the daily to his two followers, Salim al-Naqqash and someone else more... Both were Christian. He handed over it to those. --Adip Ishaq Adip Ishaq. Both is working with Christians. it is a different kettle of fish what sort of publications they are, if they serve for Christianity or try to split Islam , but he leaves the daily to two Christians, not Muslims in order to disseminate his ideas. It's clear whom they serve. Dr. Muhammad Hussain and Ahl as-Sunna [the true pious Muslims who follow our Master the Prophet and as-Sahâbat al-kirâm] academists disclosed all facts about them; their all operations, masonry, relations with other freemasons and disgraced them. It's very important. Why is it very important, Mr. Fatih? In that period, Turkish scholars in Istanbul were not impressed with Afghani in that period. He tried so hard to have effect on Istanbuli scholars, but he couldn't do nothing. Afghani, in Istanbul, has been supported by only those who has poor Islamic knowledge and education. They haven't a deep-rooted Islamic knowledge, for example Afghani is also weak in terms of Islamic knowledge, but he is an awesome clever man. He is apprehending and memorizing something in a short time, reading, taking a lot of thing but when you look at his education, you see he didn't get a serious education. In Turkey, those who don't get a serious education such as Mehmet Akif Ersoy and Said Nursi were impressed with Afghani. For example, Mehmed Akif says "I, too, want revolution but like Abduh; The greatest scholar of the century is Jamal ad-din Afghani". --Sir, one minute, you mentioned about Akif but Said Nursi has a certificate from madrasah Said Nursi has no graduation from madrasah. Nursi has no a comprehensive, serious scholarly education. He didn't get education of tafsîr, hadîth and some other key subjects... So Nursi, too, says : “My predecessors are decedent Mohammed Abduh, mufti of Egypt from polymaths and prominent genius Jamal ad-din Afghani" --Are he himself saying that? Yes, he himself says it. For a period, reason of Said Nursi and Akif's hatred and clear hostility to Abdulhamid II is Afghani and Abduh --But as I know, Nursi himself mentions two periods, called as Old Said and New Said. I think that he had gave up his ideas about Abdulhamid II later.. He had stayed out of politics that's, Old Said is doing politics, but he treated Abdulhamid II as an enemy. What is its reason? Here is important. Who is the cause? It's Afghani. --Afghani impressed him for a period. Yes Said Nursi was impressed with Afghani and became the Caliph's enemy. New Said doesn't interested in politics, why is Old Said engaging in politics? Why is he endeavoring and striving to topple the Caliph of Islam from the throne? We see that Afghani impressed this hostility on them. So now if we will talk by leaving Akif, Nursi aside, we have to know Afghanis because they infiltrate among us like this. Mr. Fatih, it's very interesting. First, ones feature him as great scholar, well who does it? Did Afghani have a power to be known all around the world? Here we go, get on the stage and let the world know you you have enough knowledge, you publish magazines, you got enough religious knowledge, you got some history knowledge, come on, travel all around the world, who know you? Who will promote you? Who will advertise you to the whole world. Everywhere you go, how are all doors opened for you? Who opens these doors? How do you get a well-known name all around the world in a short time. Everywhere he goes, Afghani, Afghani.... who are you? What's your knowledge? What are your studies, books??? --We will continue this subject. Here Prof. Mohammed Hussain express already like this your finding: "These people are introduced as precious and prominent names thanks to persistent propagandas carried out by influential and strong organizations. When these duo's true colors were revealed, a lot of fallacious and groundless thought settled into people's soul, with their reputations, will by itself come to light..." Exactly. --It's a good finding.. It's very true. First, you find out who he is, second, his ideas are dying. If the trues don't come to light -look, that's very important- his thoughts, ideas will continue to sprout and get off the ground. His ideas will continue to affect people. So we have to show their true colors. It came to light in Al-Azhar... But did those in Turkey's faculties of theology comprehend entirely who they are in fact? [No, they didn't] Look, Afghani had no impact upon scholars in Istanbul in that time, he couldn't do it because of Ottoman shaykhs al-Islam, scholars and high-ranking state officials. --Shaykh al-Islam Mustafa Sabri Efendi has a strong refutation to Afghani. Yes, he has a strong refutation to Afghani --If necessary, I'll mention it... His masonry issue, it is already certified. He was affiliated with both Scottish masonic lodges and French lodges. He was excluded from the Scottish Masonic Lodge due to his atheist ideas, even not just atheist ideas, but because he spoke of it blatantly and clearly everywhere. After that, he joins French lodge which has no this kind of problem. Afghani's masonry is very clear. Historical informations show it, there are documents about it. Masons have no any direct religion concept, it is above religions. --Sir, according to Scottish rite, you can be a Buddhist, Pagan, Muslim or Jewish up to some extend, but it says you must absolutely have a belief. But there is no it in French lodge, you can be atheist there. Yes, it's right It is reason of difference between French laicism and British secularism. Laicism in French is against religion. In UK, there is an attitude of "I don't let religion interfere my life, I, as well, don't interfere religion" like [a Bible verses] "rendering to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's" That's, it is also reflected in masonic lodges in the country. So that's why he is expelled from the lodge. Then he joined the French Grand Orient and became Grand Master of it. That's clear. But we said he was atheist, I'm going to ask it, is Afghani really atheist? is Afghani really atheist? While Jamal ad-din Afghani joins the Scottish Masonic Lodge, if he converted to Christianity or Judaism, if he was member of any religion; we would have said like that about him: "Jamal ad-din Afghani has become a Christian, Jamal ad-din Afghani has become a Jewish, Jamal ad-din Afghani has become a Buddhist..." If you can't say it about someone, you can't express it and he too himself can't express who he is, in fact, this man is an atheist who is a slave to his nafs [self], worships himself. That is, one can't be everything, I mean that I can't say "I am a Muslim. I am a Christian and also a Jewish". This situation means actually that "I don't beleive in a religion" A muslim believes in prophethood of Isa [Jesus] 'alaihis-salam', prophethood of Musa [Moses] 'alaihis-salam' and all prophets, up to 124,000. A muslim believes and puts a faith in all divine books, but he says "I am Muslim". He don't say "I am Christian". If he says "I am a Muslim, also Christian and Jewish", what is said? I don't know how to call him Can you say he is a Muslim? For instance, there is an emperior named Akbar Shah who wants to form a new religion in India. It's "union of religions". He promulgates the new religion, a syncretic creed derived from Islam, Christianity, Judaism etc... So you can call him as a kind of atheist because he has no any religion. That's, his religion is a belief that belongs to him. He himself establish a religion, that's, one worships oneself. He makes himself an idol. This is not something else. Far from it! Allahu ta'ala doesn't know truth, but he knows it. --Ibrahim al-Laqqani, one of Afghani's well-knows followers, had already expressed here thoughts of Jamal ad-din Afghani about religion. Please look, what does he say: Jamal ad-din Afghani believes in union of universe (jamiat-ul kavn). Sir, it's his belief. That's right. That's, he is naturalist, he believes in a thinking called greatness of existence unity, (malakutu Vahdanniyyat-el heyet). These are things Afghani conceptualized. There is also a thinking called views of nature (Mutashahhisat-üt tabia). Sir, and also Ebu'l-Huda as-Sayyadi, he is far-famed person. Yes he, too, is a far-famed He says for Jamal ad-din Afghani in his a letter to his student [Muhammad] Rashid Rida in 1898: "He is an irreligious who abandons his religion like an arrow that misses the target. (That's true) Rashid Rida confirms it, too. “ Christian Adip Ishaq says: "Afghani showed interest to tasawwuf in early period of his life and opted for loneliness in his home in order to evolve in tariqat [religous path] and to reach the truth. Then he abandoned tasawwuf by believing in that philosophical principles based on mind and comparison should dominate all universe. He traveled to India, learned oriental sciences, history and Sanskrit language from Brahman and Muslim scholars. Finally he believed in the eternity of the world and tended to irreligiousness". There is a sect called "Azaliyya" [being eternal] of heretical Batiniyya belief. Ishaq says Afghani tended to irreligiousness. That's his student, he says "He believes that living creatures take up in the space with natural progression and evolution and express this progression forms creatures we saw. According to Jamal ad-din, believing in existence of who is the Owner of hikmah [wisdom] and creates the first move is nothing other than a vain doubt." All are atheist ideas. What will one who fed with this kind of atheist ideas be? You said "we can discuss it in the program next week", [Muhammad] Abduh issue. Mr. Fatih, what does one who fed with this kind of atheist ideas say? Let's look at one of letters which Abduh sent him: He says "You know what are in our souls [heart], as you saw and know what are in our appearances. We belong to you, and we will return to you". Here you summed Afghani's ideas up perfectly. When we look at his followers, others, his writings, letters, each of them, we witness Afghani has this kind of views. How does one who is fed with this kind of heretical views regard him? He will regard him as a God. --No need "as", he believes almost that he is God What does he [Abduh] say? "You know what is in our soul [heart], as you saw and know what is in our appearance. Inshallah we'll give more examples of his letters next week. Sir, Abduh says "Even if angels are in doubt about their mabouds [gods], even if prophets are in doubt about wahy [divine revelation]; My Lord, I am with you and I am in your way" That's over. "We belong to you, and we will return to you". This expression is used for Allahu ta'ala. But Abduh says it for his teacher [Jamal ad-din Afghani] I absolve theology teachers who are aware of this, but although a good number of sduties, researches and informations like that [about Afghani]; theologian in faculties of theology [in Turkey] acted under the influence of him for a quite a long period. And today there are still his some followers [in the faculties]. Why don't they understand, why don't they study, why don't they read? --Here is the critical question, that's, his masonary is certified. Yes, it's certain. He [Afghani] is a person who was excluded from the mosanic lodge because of his atheist ideas. That's certain, too We stated shortly his regilious thoughts. Also first let's say that and then let's judge... He made a public lecture in opening of Dar-ül Fünün (a new university) in Istanbul. Yes, It is. It was a speech that caused him to be expelled from the country. What was it? This lecture was made in opening of Dar-ül Fünün he has already been in Istanbul. It was 1892 This lecture was made in opening of Dar-ül Fünün Afghani says there, "prophethood are crafts which could be acquired by effort". That's why I said that Afghani couldn't find any follower, proponent in Istanbul. He couldn't mislead scholars and olamā in Istanbul. After first speech there comparing philosophy to prophethood and implicitly calling prophethood a craft, he was expelled, dismissed... --It had caused great indignation Yes, it was a great indignation. That's he says that prophecy is not possessed with Allah's favor, selection, but it is attained by working hard like a craft. --Hmm Sir, he says that prophethood is art of soul as each organ has a craft. That's crucial. The problem is here. He doesn't accept prophethood. Sir, let's ask that question to our theologians: Is this sentence a qufr [blasphemy]? For example Afghani has a poem named "You, put my name". Shall we read it? --Sir, let's read it in the end of program. Sir, that poem is so significant, I’ll extend program so that you can read it… Afghani expelled from here. Is it over? Afghani travels everywehere. He stirs up trouble in everywhere. When he has been in Egypt, The first masonic society there was founded by Afghani. --Sir, before Afghani; British, French, Italian, Jews, Christians and Coptics have always been as a member in masonic lodges in Egypt. It was the first time that Afghani joined the lodge there as a Muslim. Then he encourages his all followers and disciples to join the masonic lodge, and he helps some of them join it. Where does he stay in Egypt? --Rashid Rida says "I am single person who doesn't join the lodge" So We have to discuss Rashid Rida, too. --Of course. It is another issue. --He is owner of al-Manar, a weekly but he is a severe enemy of Islam. He is not freemason but under the influence of Afghani. --But there are some rumors about his joining it afterwards... You know, Afghani stays in a Jewish inn. Jews are always with him in Egypt. --The Egyptian Prime Minister arranges a room for him in Al Khalil Inn in a Jewish quarter. Sir, why an Egyptian PM do that for him? For example, Riaz Pasha, [Coptic Egyptian Prime Minister], protects Afghani because he does something supported by British. --He is in some cell operations because he can't do it in a Muslim quarter, it draws attention... Why does a Muslim carry out a clandestine operation in a Muslim country? --Everything about him is secret, his identity is secret, his religious thoughts is secret; wherever he is, he speaks in compliance with conditions of that region. Who he is- is not clear. It's like selling pork to Muslims in a Muslim country; If you are a Muslim, nobobdy suspect you of what you did. But you are in secret cell operations. With whom? It is with Jewish. --Please look, Afghani founds the first secret network called 'Egyptian Youth' in Egypt. Its all member are Jewish, not Muslim, you can find it in sources including Keddie and others. Let's ask you this, he is advocate of Pan-Islamic unity. Now, for example, Turkish philosophers say about Afghani that he is a person who follows Pan-Islamic policy. Is it really true? Of course, how will they praise him? How will they regard as a great man? How will they introduce him to us as a great man? They say 'Pan-Islamist' for Abdul Hamid II, too, don't it? Well, why doesn't he support Abdul Hamid II? That is, first question, so why is he enemy of Abdul Hamid Han? Also I don't call 'Pan-Islamist' policy what is followed by Abdul Hamid Han, policy of Abdul Hamid is 'Ittihad-i Islami', that means 'unity of muslims' --The word "Pan-Islamism" is already a turbulent expression. Yes, this term is like that. But Afghani don't follow an Islamic unity policy, but 'divide and rule' policy on Muslims. He goes to Egypt and makes a propaganda of division by saying to Egyptians "Turks are going, Ottoman Empire is ending, Ottoman is dying. Egypt belongs to Egyptians. O! Egyptian Arabs, wake up! Now you are possessor of this religion"... On the other hand, he goes to Iran and says in a paper, Al-'Urwatul Wusqa: "O! Iranians, you played a great role in spreading of the religion, you supported and spread it. It is you who exolted this religion. Why are you still dependent on Turks? Why are you still dependent on Ottoman? Caliph must be one of you... Wherever Afghani goes, he divide, pull people to pieces, separates. It's mission of Afghani, not to unite but to divide. It's like poison covered with sugar. They cover poison with sugar and make Muslims believe that it's sweet. --Sir, Afghani defends unity of Sunni-Shia in Sunni countries, but it was never seen and heard that he defended unity of Sunni-Shia in Iran. That is, he is coming to a Sunni country and saying that "What is this separation? We have to unite these two major denominations" But there is no this kind of propaganda carried out by him in Iran. This is first. Second, although there is no any dispute between four Sunni madhhabs in terms of iman [belief, faith], he has some activities on uniting these madhhabs, even if there is disputes between them. Third, Afghani gives enourmous support the Wahhabi movement in Najd. Fourth, he is both Pan-Arabist and Pan-Turkist. His friendship with Ahmet Agaoglu is well-known, he is coming into Abdul Hamid's presence and saying, "Send me to Turkistan as Mahdi [who is the prophesied redeemer of Islam]. Let me stir up a revolt against the Russian Tzar among Central Asian people". In another case, he address Abdul Hamid Han, "Declare you are Mahdi, all Muslims beleive in you." --Of course, Abdul Hamid Han is aware and see that British are behind of these operations, (calls him as charlatan, calls him British spy) Sir, he goes to British and says "Send me to Sudan with title of Mahdi. Sudan is already under your occupation, let me make it a part of your country. He is such an interesting man. Then, in other words, his real mission is to divide and separate under mask of Pan-Islamist. (to divide, to seperate) He want to establish an Arabic caliphate. It is a clear British policy Well, I'll ask that... Who benefits from this policy? Of course, it is British. Its results are obvious. --But, don't be unfair to him, for a period, you know, there is an Arabi Pasha's revolt against British in Egypt It was by supported Afghani and his disciple Abdullah, according to Rashed Rida's narration... But what did result of the revolt happen? --What happened was a disaster In the end, British army occupied there, right? It seemed that they support Arabi Revolt. Mr. Fatih, as we told just now, danger is coming, that is, the game is same everywhere. Firstly, they provoke you, then they intervene and destroy you. Why didn't Afghani get in trouble for it. --The Arabi Pasha's revolt was just such a plot that Afghani was at the back of it. Being assassin is his another feature. Is he terrorist, isn't it? That's true, he is a terrorist, he is assassin. For instance, he has been in this kind of attempts in Iran. The assassination of Nasir ud-Din Shah by one of his followers was planned by Afghani. That's why the Iranian Shah send a message about Afghani to Abdul Hamid Han and warns him, "He is an Iranian and Shia. And Abdul Hamid Han invited Afghani to Istanbul in order to place him under house arrest because the Ottoman Sultan knew his separatist activities. Abdul Hamid Han surrounds him with spies because he stir up always trouble. But Abdul Hamid Han is an awake politician and doesn't allow him to walk free till his death. It is key reason of [Mehmet] Akif's enmity to the Islam Caliph [rahmatullahi 'alaih]. Afghani died in 1897. He was buried in the Cemetery near the Macka. --He was buried in Sheikhs Cemetery Who had the tomb built? An American Yes, with efforts of American Blund. --His American friend [Blund] had his tomb built. It's a marble, marvelous... Why have American [Christian] tomb of a Muslim built??? What happened to grave of Ottoman Prince in France? We mentioned recently --His body was thrown into a hole Yes, but the American have a marble tomb built --An American freemason comes here [Istanbul] from 'transoceanic' and have a marvelous marble tomb built in Macka [Istanbul]. You know, his body was transferred to Kabul in 1944. (Yes) Sir, Afghani and [Muhammad] Abduh plots to assassinate the Egyptian ruler Khedive Ismail Pasha. He tries to topple Ismail Pasha because Tawfiq Pasha, the Khedive's son who he tried to attract his the favour and confidence, is with him in a masonic lodge. So Afghani plans to overtake the country by bring him to the power. He wanted to be head of the constitutional committee. But he understood that he backed the wrong horse soon afterwards when Tawfiq Pasha took the power. The new Egypt ruler ordered his deportation because he knows how he is dangerous, fearing that Afghani was propagating republicanism in Egypt. --Sir, Why is Afghani's residence in Istanbul called as "Golden Cage"? I think he stayed in Istanbul for 5-6 years. Afghani isn't allowed to go out and to publish his writings in any daily or magazine. His visitors are always kept under control. He can't meet with politicians. It's a kind of prison life. Why? Abhul Hamid Han has a prodigious secret service throught Ottoman soils, but he has also an incredible intelligence service abroad which have about 20,000 to 25,000 personell. There are very different persons the Sultan used for intelligence activities. For example he uses person as agent who assissin him. Abdul Hamid Han gets all information about Afghani, so know very well that Afghani tried to divide Muslims everywhere he has been, his thoughts, his activities in Britain. Informations related to Afghani is coming personally from Iran Shah. Abdul Hamid Han receives detailed knowledge about him from Egypt, everywhere. He was expelled from Istanbul where he came in 1903 [it would be 1870]. In the first time Abdul Hamid Han met him.... ### There is a slip of the tongue here, because he died in 1897 Yes, he was died 1897. Did he expel in his first visit to Istanbul, didn’t it? Yeah right. He was expelled during his visit... In the first time Abdul Hamid Han met him, the Sultan says "Let's unite all Muslim throughout Islam world and wake them up". That is, Abdul Hamid Han says him a common action... Probably he gave Abdul Hamid Han all kinds of guarantees on this subject. Afghani is leaving the meeting with positive idea. --Even he joins a commission that is founded for Shia ulama (clergy) in Iraq to recognize the caliph of Abdul Hamid Han and he sends letters and persuades his friends there. Why? To curry favor with Abdul Hamid Han and to get his confidence... Of course, within this period, Abdul Hamid Han looks always into his activities by assessing detailed information about him. So he invited Afghani to Istanbul, capital of the Ottoman Empire and the major center of Muslim power, for the second time. Abdul Hamid enmity was peak point in that years. Almost all Muslims including Afghanistan, Egypt, India were colonized by British except two or three countries. Why does he call "Afghani"? Because he is a person used by British. That's why he can travel easily throughout Muslim countries thanks to British support and protect. Nobody say anything! Afghan people is under British occupation. He walks around like a British citizen. Abdul Hamid Han invites him again and Afghani comes to Istanbul with great eagerness. Ottoman Sultan says "I need you. Draw up reports about Muslim world. I will benefit from you in some projects". Now you are such... but Abdul Hamid Han too is a clever politician. Probably Afghani couldn't realize Abdul Hamid's plan on restraining him. The Ottoman Sultan allocates a great villa with sea view for him in Istanbul and besets him with snoops... Let Afghani prepare anymore a lot of reports. --So, that's why his residence in Istanbul is called 'Golden Cage'. Abdul Hamid allocates plenty of money, pays him a compliment But he prevents Afghani's connection with the world. --Sir, Even he got so bored from the siege and attempted to refuge to the British Embassy in Istanbul but the men of Abdul Hamid prevent him to escape. I’d like to ask you about Afghani's followers... That is, he is one whose masonry is certified, identity is uncertain and nondescript, targets are secret. He is one who has atheist ideas. His Allah belief is not clear. He is one who spied for British and served for French. He is one who is behind all kinds of clandestine and masked network and movement. I really wonder how such a man can affect Muslim clergies, theologians who gets a religious education both in the last quarter of the 19th century and during the 20th century? How is he introduced as a religious leader, an Islamic opinion leader, a mujahid? I'd like to give a striking example of his insults to Islam it caught just my eyes, there are letters that he sent to French [orientalist Ernest] Renan. Afghani says in one of these letters that Islam is opposed to the development of science but blame doesn't belong to Muslim, but Islam. Muslims will succeed in freeing itself from the tutelage of religion and marching resolutely resolutely in the path of civilization after the manner of Christians, a few centuries later. Whom does he says to? He says to French orientalist Renan. His letters were published. Iran published all documents of Afghani, they are in the National Library of Iran. And descendants of Afghani took surname "jamali" in Iran because of he is national hero there in order to benefit from his reputation. After I express it, too; although his such notorious and disaster attributes and features How can we explain that he is introduced by some as an Islamic leader in Turkey; ; and perhaps really with goodwill, many religious men, theologians regard him as a murshid and mujahid? Who are his followers? When you look at that period, it's sometimes foggy and misty. That is, you can't acknowledge facts. There are periods that Islamic world was dominated and colonized by British. Ottoman Empire has to take care of itself, tries to do something with its limited power. Military coups... It's days that Abdulaziz Han [32nd Sultan of the Ottoman Empire] almost lost his power, Ottoman Empire was called the "sick man" by Europeans. British made an intensive propaganda against Islam. They were trying to build a perception that Islam is an obstacle to progress. It had became a nearly trend that Islam was accused of preventing development and progress. British were deviously treating this subject. Afghani, too, says same thing just as British propaganda. Although Ziya Pasha [an Ottoman writer and poet] is a freemason, he is even troubled with the Afghani's discourse and says, "[They say] It seems Islam was an impediment to progress of state; there was no such a thing before, these rumors came up recently." --Does Ziya Pasha say it as a response to Afghani? Maybe for Afghani, maybe for his followers... --I understand, Ittihat ve Terakki [Committee of Union and Progress] and Jön Türkler [Young Turks] were very impressed by these propagandas. All of them see the guilt in Islam. Their master [Afghani] says it: "Guilt belongs to Islam, not Muslims" Abdullah Cevdet [Ottoman Turkish intellectual and medical doctor], all of Ottoman enemies, all of Abdul Hamid enemies, are following him. --Adoudullah, Abdullah Cevdet has Bahá'í faith and are Bábi. There is another aspect of Jamal ad-din Afghani: Bábism And he says one who don't love is like Abu Jahl [flag-bearer of disbelief and hatred towards Islam] --Does this expression belong to Abdullah Cevdet, doesn't it? Yes, it belongs to him, who was called "Aduvullah" (the enemy of Allah) by Necip Fazil Kisakurek. --If there is never a truth, just by this expression of Abdullah Cevdet, it's enough to understand Afghani's situation on in the eye of Muslims Abdullah Cevdet says "One who don't love is like Abu Jahl". Mehmet Emin Yurdakul [a Turkish writer] also says "It needs to love Jamal ad-din Afghani like loving the Prophet". What did Akif say about Afghani? Akif [the author of the Turkish National Anthem] says "I, too, want revolution but like Abduh; The greatest scholar of the century is Jamal ad-din Afghani" and "In short, my sheikh, let's remove and send occasionally from there, Jamal ad-dins to Islamic world." Yeah, they did and it’s clear what happened to Islamic world!!! --Now it's understood more clearly reason of Akif's hostile attitude to Abdul Hamid We already mentioned it for that. --Sir, now is there any group we can call disciples of Afghani in Turkey? Who is these people? Honestly, we can't say there is no such a group. They are mainly in the faculties of theology. Recently I was listening a debater in a TV program. Same ideas, same words... There is never difference. You can say easily that this man doesn't beleive in Allah. Unfortunately not a few... --Sir, Afghani got his first education in Iran. In his teenage years, in his youth, he had receieved an education in Najaf and Karbala. Shia education system bases on philosophy. It's a philosophic school based on Kalami [relating science of discourse], aqaidi [an Islamic term meaning creed] and discussion. So, that is, they were already poisoned by this education system. Key education he got is actually coming from Shia school. --Absolutely and he is a man who mocked one of Bábism's four principles. What is Bábísm? It is totaly out of Islam. It is the name of movement whose founder alleged he is Twelfth Imam Muhammad al-Mahdi and is divinized... Sir, we are about to close program and now that famous poem... He [Afghani] says "you, put my name" British beleieve I'm a Russian According to Muslim, I'm Zoroaster I was supposed a Shia by Sunnis and an enemy of Ali by Shias and a Wahhabi by some of four madhabs. and a Babi by some virtous people. I was known as a materialist by believers and as a sinner who was missing piety by religious persons. and as a ignorant who know nothing by scholars and as a non-believer sinful by believers. Neither a non-believer invite me, Nor Muslims assume me as one from them Me who dismissed from mosque and expelled from church, I don't know whom I'll will trust, with whom I'll quarrel It is essential to deny one to accept another, Accepting one side makes other friends enemy. I have no choice to get rid of escaping, being besieged and a group, On the other side, I have an stable place to quarrel. Me, his hands tied, his feet broken; sitting down in Bala Fortress in Kabul I wait to see what darkness veil prepared for me, and malicious sky hid what kind of destiny in its back --He had said "you, put my name". So we did, he already expressed himself He is a person who can't say that "I am in this side", "I am in that side" You have to express yourself, you should say 'This is me' --It is a poem that he wrote before his death. It is shortly before his death. This poem tells everything. Thank you very much, sir. You're welcome --As you said in the beginning of our conversation, It can be made dozens even hundreds of programs about Afghani. Inshallah, now we'll make a program about Muhammad Abduh. He is very weird character, too. Inshallah, he is so important to understand Afghani and today. Thank you very much You're welcome.